Disposable Heroes: Forum

Personally I think a map reset is in all of our best interests. I've been a part of Herocraft for quite a while now too. I have amassed a HUGE amount of resources. More iron that I will EVER need, plenty of coal & redstone. I even have 4,457c which would be great if I could carry over with me to a new map, but come on, how fair would that be? I am ready for a new world. I am ready for a map that I know was built from the ground up with blood, sweat, and tears. (Not to mention a few creeper explosions) I wan't to be scared when night falls, I want to have small cities that are more like towns with a few people banded together in order to survive. Basically I am ready for Herocraft to become what Herocraft was meant to be. Terrifying. Hard. Satisfying.

Yay my kingdom idea was discussed! =D

Anyway, onto more thoughts.

One major reason for this switch to a new map would be due to a lack of resources in the current one. I thought about this some. Why would you dump all the resources you have, to move onto a new map, so there are more resources? It seems like its a "Hey, the old map got pilfered enough that i can't find stuff. Hmmm, lets do it again!" If we could carry over things, maybe even just an inventory full of them, it may slow the carving of the new world quite a bit.

Next idea, people are wanting a fresh start to have that sense of survival. Well, once towns are established, you lose that feeling again. This line of thought would lead to resets of the map. I have a dream. Instead of having just a primary build server with a secondary hell server, have the secondary server feature a monthly wiped map similar to the requested one. Every month, the hell server gets a new map.

To make this better, and to help solve some resource problems, have the secondary rotate between a new normal world and a new hell world every month. (ie: jan=hell, feb=norm, mar=hell, apr=norm, . . .) the main rule on the second server would be no established towns, only outposts, hastily cobbled together to gather in. Also, limit the items able to be brought over to the secondary server, regardless of if it is in hell or norm cycle, like was planned in the hell server already.

This idea would help solve a few complaints. It would allow players to constantly have access to that survival mentality due to monthly wipes, having to start anew. It would solve resource problems, as every other month a new norm map would be available, full of new resources. This would also allow people that like to build and grow to do so on the main server without fear of another wipe, clearing easily hundreds of hours of work and dedication.

Thoughts?

that was alot to read so i only skimmed it, what if the most popular cities were salvaged and brought over and put somewhat close to each other so that we maintain using the most outta the map

Actually, Notch specifically said that after Beta, game-changing updates would come a lot slower, and he'd be more focused on content (ie. more blocks, items, mobs). So the general idea is this map reset might last us well into either gold release or at least till the next huge code update (like the way Halloween did).


I wanted to re-iterate two or three things I mentioned in the meeting:

* I do not want HC to become about level-grinding. If I wanted to level-grind, I'd go play games designed for it, like WoW, or any other RPG-based MMO. That's what those games are for. Minecraft is for building, collaboration, and occasionally kicking some monster ass. If the game has suddenly taken a shift towards having to spend most of my online time hacking away at the same 3 mobs just to be able to use a spell or a tool that I need in order to build, then the game just went from being a dream to becoming a tedious piece of crap. I understand that the levesl make it a little more interesting, it gives certain types of players a sense of accomplishment, and so forth, but I didn't buy this game and donate to the server just so that I could play a lower-resolution level-grinding RPG. I did it because I love the concept of being able to terraform and be a landscape and structural architect in the digital world, among a community of artists and architects who can appreciate each others' work without griefing it. If I wanted to do pointless grinding just so I could use the next weapon on the list, I'd play Runescape or something.

* In a similar vein, I don't want to be forced to PVP or mish. I may decide at some point I want to partake of it for brief stretches at a time, because it's fun, but as you all know, I've got a very demanding wife and 2 kids. If I had time to run mishes, I'd be playing EVE Online (which kicks ass, if you have uninterrupted hours at a time to play mishes). If I wanted to PVP all the time, I'd be playing Astro-Empires (which is ALL about PVP by numbers).

* New map should have a general rule of something like "Block Levels 1-18 will get periodically wiped and regenerated." This will alleviate the problems with over-mining, while allowing some underground cities to exist. Just don't build anything you want to keep at block 18 or lower, and you'll be fine.

* Will fire be enabled on the new map, and should it be? If we suddenly get access to Hell's blocks, bloodstone might make a nice addition to the main world.

* As was mentioned in another post, perhaps the old world can be made a part of the multi-verse or something, though that does cause a bit of a problem with the resources being carried over to the new game, so maybe not.

[EDIT] One additional thing I forgot to add:

* I do not want to lose "ALL" teleport options. Keep the Black Gates, scrap Teleports and Waypoints, or keep the TPs and WPs and scrap the Black Gates.... limit them to certain select areas, like just outside of cities, or something, but for the love of G-d, do not gimp cities more than a few paces from spawn by removing ALL TPs and inisisting on minecart usage. Tracks cost 6 bars PER TILE for those who don't realize this, and while iron WAS cheap on the old map, if we have limited resources, the prospect of just breaking 100 iron will be rather impressive, much less the 600 iron required to even create a modest 100 minecart track.

And as for the "just walk there," how many of you really want to have to stop everything you're doing and devote the next half hour to two hours, every time someone wants to see your town? Because that's exactly what you'll have to do if you want any new visitors. You will have to stop everything you're doing, meet them at spawn, wait till day, and try and book it to your city in time, possibly holing up with them for the night if it gets too dark and too real. And then, right about the time you are halfway there, someone else wants an escort.

To hell with that. I'm all for limiting the use of TP-like effects, but at least give established areas the opportunity to still have ONE leading to their site.

Thetxlibra said:
"...I do not want to lose "ALL" teleport options. Keep the Black Gates, scrap Teleports and Waypoints, or keep the TPs and WPs and scrap the Black Gates.... limit them to certain select areas, like just outside of cities..."

If anyone has played Diablo 2, they will understand this kind of concept.

We can have waypoints and teleporters... (or Black Gates) the issue comes when people build a waypoint and teleporter for every little place (which clutters up the common areas):
A mine at the edge of the map
A house in the middle of the wasteland
Less than 125-150 blocks away

Those are examples of waypoints and that are unnecessary. Now back to Diablo 2ish idea, I'm proposing we have 8 -10 waypoints spread across the map in each direction: N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW.
This allows for some transportation so that it doesn't take 2 hours to get from one place or another as Libra described above.

(If a mayor would like to select a location near a waypoint for their city and I'm betting they will, then its up to Kainzo to maybe charge extra for a prime location???)

Moving on, there SHOULD be some danger in traveling, that is what the game was designed for, even in the day you can still run into creepers or spiders. Waypoints (or Black Gates) spread out in this manner allows for transportation across the map with out having a clusterfuck of teleporters (the nexus was cool idea, but lvls 2,3, and 4 were filled with crap)

Additional I felt the server was suffering from trade transactions where everyone would just meet at /spawn trade and then build a teleporter and go back to their waypoint in the middle of nowhere to do w/e they were doing (mining most likely)... it was counter intuitive to the type of towns like Vesuvius.

If you've played Diablo 2 you'll understand the concept I'm going for in this post.

I would be all for something like 4-8 cardinal waypoints. It stands to reason the first few cities would spring up around these sites.

I like a lot of the changes that are coming but one thing really bothers me. Mine carts/TP removal. I understand a lot of the arguments about how people just have TP's everywhere and you dont have to "explore" the way others feel they should.

For me i love TP's/Waypoints, More so the /mark and recall commands. But removing them completely from the game would just make it annoying to go places you have like mine's, yes it should be hard to get to mines but honestly are all of you willing to run 30 minutes to 2 hours back home to drop off your stuff in a safe place? You say you are willing to now but i doubt it to be true. TP's should have a limit though on how many people can use. For example each person is able to use 2 senders and 2 receivers that's it. I know it may not be something that can be done but that is just an example.

Mine carts are not an effective way to get around the map in my opinion. They would be fun for side projects and random things but for a system of traveling to other towns and cities i dont see it working. For one since there is not any discussion on resupplying the map of resources make us use mine carts to travel would make those resources run out even faster and we would be even worse off than the map is now.

I honestly think having a mix of Mine carts and TP's would be the best idea, I love the concept of the Nexus because having to run across a map every time you die would make people either 1)not want to go out mining or do anything away from town or 2)make them look for a server where they dont have to run 1 hour back to there town because a creeper came in and blew them up. There needs to be a compromise between both mine carts and TP's instead of using one or the other. Just my thoughts though.

Oh i also forgot to touch on a topic that was brought up in an earlier post that relates to citizen ship. There has been talk of adding a 1 week period in which you have to wait to become a citizen to try and stop the ghost town's of houses. I see a very huge problem i see here is that this will cause people to just build more and more houses and safe places outside in the wilderness and it seems from what i read that a lot of you want to stop this from happening but adding a wait for citizenship will just cause this to happen on a bigger scale.

Oh an Map reset, i wouldn't mind seeing one it would be fun to go through the staying alive part while trying to build a successful and safe town. But either way i dont think i would care much as long as the server is still the same fun place to stay.

Ah let me shrink my wall of text from above to be readable.

On the main server, maybe after the wipe, we keep it, with no chance of another wipe unless there is major code change, thus keeping people's work from being destroyed.

On the hell/secondary server, have it rotate between a new hell and a new normal world every 2 weeks, so people wanting the survival feeling can always have it, and resources are always available when the normal world is rotated in.

I feel like this would solve a lot of problems, with new resources being generated when the hell server wipes, and the main server not getting wiped to preserve people's work.

On the hell/secondary server, we could limit the items able to be brought over to tools and food to increase the difficulty, and disallow township, as it'd be wiped in a week or two anyway.

One more thing to keep in mind is that once the multiverse works, inventory can be carried from server to server, alleviating much of the resource problem as well.

McGreed @ Dec 18 2010, 04:48 AM wrote: And could I recommend that we create the new map with the BiomeTerrain Mod, http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic ... 25&t=76184 , to get varied kinds of environements and trees in the world. Since we already know the size of the map, it might as well be generated before anyone joins it, so Kain could generate the whole map and in 6 days and the 7th release it to the hoards.

And I know it might be something that you don't want, but I think a modified version of the Death Chest would be good, as I don't believed that the death system at the moment has ever been good. It never made sense to me that things just disappeared in 5 minutes. Let people die and spawn the death chest (which you can only access) and then a timer on it could remove a item from it every 1 minute (things getting stolen, animals gets it ect) after the inital 3 minutes, until its empty and it despawns. Of course, if you land in lava, this wouldn't happen.
It's still hard, and you still might not get a chance to get to it in time, because transportation is still slow with TP taken out. So it's not "making it less hard", it just gives people more of a incentive to try and go back to retrieve it.

YES! 100% Agreed.